I’m afraid it is your problem
I often get asked, what would change your mind? I don’t know. I don’t have to know. If there is a God, that God should know exactly what would change my mind and should be capable of doing it, and the fact that this hasn’t happened means that either that God doesn’t exist or doesn’t want me to know he exists…yet. Not my problem.
Last time I expressed my own skepticism about the intellectual integrity of some skeptics when they claim there is no evidence for God and refuse to even speculate on what might qualify as evidence. Must I really take such a poor excuse for unbelief coupled with a likewise poor and cowardly copout seriously? Try as I might I just can’t.
There are some who are humble enough to at least admit that their skeptical tendencies would likely render any evidence unconvincing, like the Hinge co-host I mentioned in my previous post. And others who do bravely speculate, like physicist and no-friend-to-theism-unless-you-factor-in-his-pompous-dismissiveness-which-reflects-poorly-on-his-position Lawrence Krauss, who proffers that, “It would be easy to have evidence for God. If the stars rearrange themselves tonight and I looked up tonight… and I saw the stars rearrange themselves [and] say, “I am here.” Gee, that’s pretty interesting evidence!”
Meeting the bar, not at it
But then there’s “internet personality” and atheist Matt Dillahunty who gutlessly refuses to shoulder any responsibility whatsoever for qualifying what would constitute as sufficient evidence for God. Not his problem. The above quote is his from a debate on the resurrection of Jesus with New Testament scholar Mike Licona. If he often gets asked what would change his mind it’s because that’s a logical question to ask someone who has determined that none of the evidence that has convinced others meets the bar. In essence we’re asking, what’s the bar? And if he can’t say what the bar is, how can he know that evidence like the coming into being of all matter, space, time, and energy from nothing does not meet that bar?
It seems to me special pleading to require the theist to support why she believes the evidence strongly suggests a God but in him rejecting that, not having to even propose evidence that he would accept. And isn’t it so convenient for Mr. Dillahunty to lack a standard for acceptability so that virtually any evidence can be rejected.
Other options not allowed
I would be interested to hear this atheist’s supporting argument for his claim that since he’s personally not convinced of God’s existence, “either that God doesn’t exist or doesn’t want me to know he exists…yet.” Though he apparently wants to leave open the possibility that God may “yet” reveal himself to him…because as he also says in this debate, he’s not asserting there is no God, only that he’s not convinced (which, of course, relieves him of the burden of providing any positive evidence for atheism)…his limiting of his non-persuasion to only two possible conclusions is plainly false. Theists have good answers to the objection of the hiddenness of God that he surely is familiar with. He’s free to reject them but to ignore or deny them as options is disingenuous.
Just give me an idea
I believe it’s reasonable to expect from an atheist who is unconvinced by the evidence for God some general idea of what he’s looking for. A physical manifestation apparent to every eye at the same time? An unexplainable overriding of the laws of nature, like a parting of the Mississippi? Limbs growing back on amputees? A lot of them do like that one. A personal appearance of Jesus at the foot of their bed inviting them to put their hands in his scarred hands and side?
I’ll conclude with my conclusion from last time, that most who do have an idea what would be sufficient evidence don’t admit it for fear that it will be seen as unreasonable or that it will be shown to be, in essence, no more evidential than what they reject. Or because, as I repeated above, they know they would likely be skeptical of any imagined evidence. I have a lot of respect for those who admit that. And not a whole lot for those like Mr. Dillahunty who pompously challenge God to come through on their terms, because it’s not their problem.
“What would change your mind”. I get asked similar questions. As a Christian, If you are asked that same question, what would your answer be? Would it be somewhere along the lines that you know the truth and nothing would change your mind? Why can’t an atheist have the same answer? As a Christian, ask that question of a follower of Judea concerning their lack of belief that Jesus is the messiah. Why does anyone have to justify their beliefs or lack thereof?
“I believe it’s reasonable to expect from an atheist who is unconvinced by the evidence for God some general idea of what he’s looking for.”.
Why? As an “atheist” and unprovoked, I’ve had to deal with theists harass me about my lack of belief. Why should I have to explain what I’m looking for, I’m not looking. I am happy in my worldview. What purpose is there in telling the theist what I am looking for?
But I will answer the question. How about a personal appearance from “God”, he can perform some miracles in person to verify she/he is truly a god. Then “god” can clarify which religion/sect is the correct one.
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Hey, David. Thanks for your input. If I were asked what evidence would lead me to reject Christianity my answer would not be what you propose. I could say that if Jesus’ bodily remains were convincingly identified or the New Testament was shown to be undeniably false I would leave the faith.
As an atheist of course you are perfectly free to refuse to give an answer to what would convince you to believe in God and say that “you know the truth and nothing would change your mind.” But without some “argument” for why you believe what you do, I am perfectly free to believe you to be intellectually lazy.
But you’re not, are you, because you did give me an answer. You want to personally see a miracle. I won’t comment on that because that wasn’t the point of my post, except to say that I would like to also.
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Thanks for your response. I watched the video but at which point did Matt say “…Not my problem”. I’m trying to put your point in perspective. Thanks.
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He begins the comment around 46:40.
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Thanks Caroline, it really was a short snippet in a two and a half hour video. I enjoyed it and I think Dillahunty expressed himself well.
Reading your previous blog, a Reasonable Faith, that you are skeptical of the skeptics 🙂 You have your belief and you wonder why people do not see the same thing you do. As I mentioned in my response above, Do you question why people of other religions do not believe in the divinity of Jesus.
More to the point, It sounded to me that Dillahunty offered what would convince him. He did not come out and say “a Miracle”, or “Jesus coming to my bed” because he would likely come to the conclusion that there might be a natural cause for it. (Was he dreaming? Was he hallucinating?) He would look first towards a natural cause instead of a supernatural cause. While I was writing this, I watched the video I posted below. Dillahunty went a bit deeper into his explanation after the debate here:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2017/09/01/watch-matt-dillahunty-describe-what-it-would-take-to-change-his-mind-about-god/
Looking over your last few blogs, he touched on some of those topics.
Again, thanks for posting the video and your thoughts. It’s good to be able to get an understanding of each other through our beliefs.
Dave
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I’m finding myself a little skeptical of your rare congeniality, Dave. What are you up to? 😉
“Do [I] question why people of other religions do not believe in the divinity of Jesus?” Do you mean, do I question why their religion doesn’t teach Jesus as God, or why a non-Christian is not personally convinced, or something else?
I watched some of the video you linked to and what I heard was enough to confirm my impression of Dillahunty. From my perspective (and I recognize you see it differently), though he presents his view as the most reasonable and his answer to the question as the best one, it still sounds like a copout to me. And he tries to project his atheism as the most logical viewpoint because there is no evidence that reasonably suggests a God, which is just false. The introductory comment on the page, though probably not his, makes a similar, disingenuous claim:
“As you watch, just remember that most Christians would say, “Nothing.” Their faith means no amount of evidence will ever sway them… which is precisely why you shouldn’t take their beliefs seriously.”
The implication is that we believe despite the evidence which, even though many professed Christians are unaware of the evidence and believe anyway, completely misrepresents thoughtful Christians like me and many others. If someone chooses not to take my beliefs seriously that’s their prerogative. But they can’t also honestly claim a thoughtful, fair, and sincere evaluation of my beliefs.
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Ha! My rare congeniality, I try and it’s okay to be skeptical but lets look at it this way, what crazy “atheist” writes about a Jesus Poem?:
https://story4today.wordpress.com/2016/06/12/the-jesus-poem/
After years of watching and getting involved with the great debates between atheists and theists, I just feel there’s got to be a better way. I actually like learning about the history of all world religions. It doesn’t mean I am always patient. I get annoyed sometimes 🙂
“Do you mean, do I question why their religion doesn’t teach Jesus as God, or why a non-Christian is not personally convinced,” Yes. Your focus here is towards atheism but it’s not just atheist that are not convinced that Jesus is God. I suppose in a way I am asking why you are skeptical of the skeptics and not addressing the other god-fearing religions. When I talk to the Christian, they claim only their belief is the truth belief. The believer of Islam will say “No, my belief is the truth belief” and yes, the follower of Judaism will tell me the others are wrong and only Judaism is the truth! As an outsider (technically), I’m listening to three different groups, each telling me that they know the truth and all others are false.
Getting back on topic, I have to admit, I think Dillahunty is well spoken and it’s likely because his worldview may closely match mine. I can also understand that you disagree because his beliefs are totally opposite to yours, “Not My Problem” (sorry, I had to throw that in there, lol). I grew up Catholic so I understand where you are coming from. It’s just important to me now to listen to people who may not agree with me and understand their view point. I’m not a “militant” atheist or anything like that. As I mentioned above, I like learning about the history of religion, I’m not shy about attending a Buddhist temple, a Catholic church, attending a Unitarian Universalist service..etc. Sometimes I think my viewpoint is the most logical (as you said about Dullahunty) but for me it’s more along the lines of a mediator. I know there are many, many beliefs, I just sit at the sidelines and listen to them all. I take no view on which religious belief is true. I’d rather have people like you as a friend rather than an opponent. So if you ever had a question about “atheist”, you would trust me to give you an honest answer.
Dave
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To answer your question, Dave, I feel called to defend the Christian faith and that doesn’t require that I address what all the other religions believe. If I can reasonably establish the truth of Christianity then, because other religions differ from it on major points, I am at the same time showing them to be false. But because belief in Christianity necessitates that one believes in the existence of God, and because I believe skepticism and atheism are what many, in this country at least, are being influenced by, I do feel a need to put a lot of my efforts there.
Sure, anyone who is serious about their faith, whatever it is, is convinced to some degree that it is true. But the mere fact that conflicting worldviews all claim to be true does not mean that none of them can be. Only that they ALL can’t be true.
I read your post and I admire you for your humble honesty and your desire to really be fair. And I feel a certain kinship with you, as my mother also loved Jesus and probably also wrote some poetry, but she was mostly visually artistic and I’m thinking of a picture she drew of him that I believe reflected a dream she had. She died 12 years ago. She and my dad were very devout Catholics and were sad and upset when I left the church. But they never shut me out and loved me and prayed for my return “home.”
I’ve written a lot about the errors of the Roman Catholic Church and am convinced that “she,” the church, is the reason why many abandon faith altogether. When a thinking person raised Catholic starts to question the legitimacy and believability of what they were taught, they will likely feel lied to and manipulated and many will “throw the baby out with the bathwater” thinking, if that’s what Christianity is they want no part of it.
Thank you for your offer to be an atheist “resource.” I will follow your blog so that I always have a congenial and “crazy” atheist to keep me from getting totally fed up with insincere skeptics. 🙂
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